Love: Decision or Emotion?

 

Adrian Warnock suggests it is a decision.

Dale Krebbs argues it’s a decision and an emotion

So who is right?  Is there another view?

1. Does it matter as long as there are actions?
2. Does love proceed or precede the action? – to put it another way, can you ‘make love’ by acting loving towards people you don’t yet have feelings of love for?
3. Does our understanding of love work for all of love’s applications (romantic, brotherly, plutonic etc)
4. Does love grow or is it a feeling to be protected?
5. Does God choose to love (decision), or does he love (feeling)?

Now about spiritual gifts, I don’t want you to be ignorant

 

I think the Holy Spirit gets a bum wrap.

1. He’s important, often ‘neglected’ [except for what we can get from him], and misunderstood because he’s poorly spoken about and we look for evidence for him and his interactions with us in poor places.
2. I believe that the fruits of the spirit are helpful, wonderful and central to being a Christ follower.
3. I believe the gifts of the spirit are relevant [for today] and helpful, but finding evidence of authentic ones and using the gifts appropriately is difficult.

in regards to the spirit and how we interact with him..

• I’m often scared of him (not in a holy fear kind of way) but just scared because I don’t understand what’s going on sometimes.
• He seems to be presented so different and out of control than ‘Jesus’ – or probably who I’ve made Jesus to be in my head? - But perhaps it’s not the holy spirit I’m scared of but rather people supposedly affected by the spirit?
• Totally comfortable with the fruits of the spirit “love, joy, peace, patience, faithfulness, kindness, gentleness, goodness, self-control” (note ‘self-control’) no-one could disagree that these are great characteristics.
• I couldn’t get through the day without the direction of the spirit or the ability to have his help to examine my motives/actions/thoughts…
• Though I get that in an attempt to be helpful we have talked about him living in my ‘Jesus shaped hole’ (think about that mental image for a minute) – I am uncomfortable with the ‘go on being filled’ if that means anything other than ‘maintain and enjoy / seek out a relationship’ with this person of the trinity.
• I don’t get why we do ‘spirit filling stuff’ [at the front] in church meetings (almost as a spectacle) when we cultivate our relationship with Christ in private, but share his effect on our lives publically.
• being filled with the spirit isn’t a ‘sign and wonder’ as far as I can tell (anymore than God is, or Jesus is)
• I don’t know what the shaking, screaming, laughing, wobbling is.. (I mean I know how we describe it, but I don’t think I have any measure to discern what it is when I see ‘it’ occurring) and I’m uncomfortable with it. – especially if it doesn’t lead to more of the ‘fruits’ of the spirit being displayed in our lives. 
• The filling of the disciples/apostles at Pentecost didn’t require the ‘laying on of hands’ to be filled, and though they acted pretty weird, they were fully able to say what was happening to them.
• If the only time I was aware of the spirit was in meetings it would be like ignoring one of my children except on their birthday. Surely, either we accept and worship the spirit as the third member of the trinity, be as focussed on him as we are on Jesus and God the father, or our understanding and our worship is lacking?

 

In terms of gifts.. 

• Speaking in tongues. I get that. it makes sense, let the heart speak without the hang up of words.
• Speak to edify yourself
• Speak to build up others (praying in/with the spirit)
• Speak to strengthen the church – don’t know how this works, but if it does, fine.
• pray in the spirit, by the spirit’s prompting – seems to make sense and be helpful.
• Interpreting tongues.  this seems to be helpful if the church is to be built up
• Does God speak to us in tongues?  Seems like an extraordinary hurdle that is unnecessary. – rather like when the catholic church only spoke in Latin…
• If he doesn’t generally speak this way, why are interpretations of tongues often phrased as if God is speaking?
• The potential for abuse of tongues then prophecy combo is huge, and though I generally trust our leaders and the people to be well intentioned, I wonder if we ever really correct things that are spoken that assume an authority that is not required, given or appropriate?
• How do we assess if someone has the gift of interpretation?
• Anyone with knowledge of scripture should be able to efficiently and intelligibly speak to remind us of it’s words without attaching to a tongue,
• I wonder, if what is interpreted is speech from someone to God or someone to the church the ability to interpret may be more easily recognised and validated! 
• Though a speaker might not know themselves the words they speak in another tongue, surely they would know whether the interpretation is consistent with what they feel or believe? 
• Or that what they are speaking about is something they have never thought about or are concerned about?
• Prophecy, I get that – if God is alive and well, he’ll surely speak, won’t he?
• Either God speaks or he doesn’t.
• if he speaks, we need to learn to listen to what he says and more importantly do it!.
• If he doesn’t speak, what on earth is all this stuff we hear ‘God’ saying?
• I don’t get a lot of the language that we use when we prophecy.  Sometimes I think we use prophecy as another way of being ‘opinionated’ or to show how ‘holy’ or ‘close to God’ we are.
• So much of prophecy seems very namby pamby.
• I struggle to believe that the God who told Noah what wood to use and how to build an ark would speak so vaguely or so restrictively to those who are attempting to follow his lead.
• Jesus spoke in parables, and though the meaning may be unclear, the holy spirit is supposed to be our helper/advocate.  in which case one would expect his communication to be intelligible, clear and helpful?
• So I’m not at all sure that much of what we hear is prophetic.  Inspired, maybe.. Prophetic? I’m not certain.
• But if we agree that God does speak to us directionally, what do we do with that?
• Authority is an elder function – so what do we do when prophets speak ‘authoritatively’? 
• I worry about the ability to pose and move ‘agenda’s’ by using prophecy. 
• I wonder just how much God really cares about some of the things we think are important? [his ways are higher than ours afterall]
• When we talk to people about how to hear God, why do we often limit their expectation of God speaking [to those without a confirmed gift of prophecy] as saying Yes, No, wait?   This doesn’t seem scriptural or helpful.
• Can you learn to prophecy, or practice it? 
• If it’s a gift it should come from the spirit.
• Understanding if you have the gift perhaps takes the wisdom and discernment of others? 
• Learning when to prophecy is helpful?
• Prophecy workshops?  what are those?
• That we both seem to highly revere prophecy, but not to include it as canonical but also need to weigh it [I’m not clear on who should weigh], AND that we ensure that nothing is considered prophetic if it is not consistent with existing canonical scripture seems a difficult balance to maintain for Christians who just try to live for Christ as well as they can.
• healings, This is always awesome when they are genuine. That God the creator has power to heal and wants to, how can anyone find that difficult. 
• There are pranksters, charlatans and people who just want attention out there. In that regard, Derren Brown clearly makes a great point and i am thankful he exposes the trickery some have clearly used… Hands up anyone who wants authenticity, not showmanship in our meetings where healings are purported?
• Whether a provable physical healing takes place, or that someone no longer complains of an affliction but accepts they have one (and is therefore made more ‘content’) seem to me to both be healings. I don’t know if the emotional healing is given as much credit as it deserves, and surely it is up to God to choose how he heals us?
• I’d love to see more physical healings.  It demonstrates as clearly as a life totally turned around that God is alive and is powerful.
• Discerning of spirits. I don’t really know what this is.
• There seems to be a lot of talk about demons and angels and spirits of the age but I don’t think I’ve really heard good teaching on this subject to be able to know what this discerning really is and how we can evidence it’s operation.
• There does appear to be a lot of nonsense talked about where we see demons in and on people who belong to Christ. I don’t see how this can be possible. If we are new creations, the old has gone the new has come. We now belong to His kingdom, and sin and evil has no dominion over us. If Christ and his spirit is ‘within’ us, how can a demon also be resident?
• I think we confuse demons with sinful actions we chose to do, and use demonic forces as an excuse to not take responsibility for the good we fail to do and the evil we chose to do.
• Wisdom.  Everyone needs more of this. this has to be a good thing
• Get wisdom, get understanding…   if we need the holy spirit to illuminate the scriptures to us, then I hope this is a gift we all have.
• Of course wisdom is nothing if it doesn’t affect our actions.
• it’s hard to be wise unless we read, learn and grow.
• Is the gift of wisdom something more than understanding what is wise?
• Knowledge. it’s surely a wonderful thing if God gifts us with knowledge supernaturally.
• Just because we know something doesn’t mean everyone needs to know.
• surely God speaks to us about more than ‘joe blogs has a dodgy knee’ – I haven’t in recent years observed much of people saying God told me about ‘situation’… I hope though that this is exactly what IS happening..
• I wonder do we maybe get knowledge confused with Prophecy?
• I don’t know how we recognise this gift, nor how we enable the benefit to be used widely.
• Faith.  How rarely do I talk about or ask for this as a gift of the spirit?
• Salvation itself requires faith.  is this gift of faith somehow different?
• surely one evidence of a gift of faith is that miraculous stuff is able to happen…
• mountains leap in the sea
• situations are miraculously altered
• is another evidence of a gift of faith the ability to impart faith into a situation where someone (else) is faithless?
• Seems to me, more than any of the other gifts, this would be a fabulous one to persistently ask God for and practice?
• Miracles:  Signs and wonders:  I guess this would have to be the ‘staff’s into serpents’ and ‘water to wine’ and stuff?
• I haven’t heard of ANY cases of anyone doing these things in modern day. 
• We see miracles as healing (and salvation) only  but what has happened to the signs and wonders stuff that perhaps to our eyes would seem more like ‘magic’
• I’d really like to be able to turn water into wine (the best stuff that people will want to drink)

 

Why have I written these things down?

It’s because if I who have been around church and Christ followers, and have attempted to follow Christ myself for much of my nearly 40 years can be concerned and confused about things of the spirit, how much more might we need to explain to those who observe us?

Isn’t it refreshing when leaders admit what they don’t know as much as what they do?  Surely it gives those who journey with us hope that they are not ‘hopelessly lost’ or incapable of contributing in the family of God whilst they wait to be with Him?

We have real questions to answer when we start talking about the spirit. I cannot be alone in having concerns and worries about what I observe [maybe I am?], but we have nothing to fear about being truthful and open about what we understand and what we don’t. 

We have to accept that there have been terrible abuses and follies. We have to be honest that we don’t always know what’s happening. We have to be clear that the Holy Spirit is God and we’re still learning how to interact with him appropriately.  (and maybe those who do have wisdom on such things, need to help those of us who don’t)

I would like to think that we are word and spirit people.  I cannot ignore this person of the trinity because some things make me uncomfortable. I cannot ignore his prompting, and I mustn’t for the sake of ignorance attempt to squeeze him out of our worship of God. Where i struggle, I want to be open to believe, have faith and know/experience more.  Where I understand, I want to grow in stature and live well.

Nehemiah, Organised builders and got building underway

I’m preparing for leading congregational singing and looking at the text for this week,  where we’re preaching through Nehemiah and looking towards moving from our current building to a new facility in the town.  I’ve struggled to get excited about Nehemiah 3 which is essentially a list of names of people who rebuilt parts of Jerusalem’s walls and finding songs that mesh even harder to find than normal!

I turned to Mark Driscoll’s series on Nehemiah for some inspiration. http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/nehemiah/leading-and-laboring#play  These are the notes I took as I listened to him preach on this chapter.

1. Leaders keep names of people they are leading to pray for them.  These were ordinary people building the walls, and were honoured by God when he listed them in the bible.
2. The size of the project determines the size and function of the organisation to tackle the project. As an organisation grows, it complexifies.
   • Initially when an organisation is small, the pastor tends to do all and know all.
   • Then when there are two or three together, a little of the load is shared, but still pretty much everyone does everything
   • Get a little bigger and complexity starts to increase, it’s a bit more like a basket ball team, where there’s a single coach, and a play maker and a solid team with some guys on the bench
   • Bigger still and gets more like a American Football team where there’s specialisms and parts of the team don’t even know or serve together, you have offence and defence, and different coaches. They don’t all play at the same time and have different skills and tasks.
3. Nehemiah can’t build the walls all by himself, it requires the help of everyone to do their part.
   • He broke the task down and allocated to smaller groups, who were unified in theology, purpose & relationally.
   • Teams were built on pre-existing relationships. (family, friendships, co-workers)
   • The bigger an organisation gets, the more important it is that there is trust.
     1. The task cannot be accomplished if people can’t be trusted to fulfil their part
     2. Trust the people you’re building with to do their part as you do yours
     3. Important to keep faithful to the vision, and not side snipe and become divisive.
   • Teams specialised on each section of the wall. Generalists are great when things are small, but when the tasks are larger, we need to use specialists who will be more effective at supporting the work.  (Consider the difference between your GP and a specialist at a hospital, where there are departments and consultants.)
     1. We need to change our focus on where we go to with issues – we can’t all run to the pastor when there are hundreds of us.
     2. Clearly identify who is doing what, and who the goto guys are
   • Have to focus on Air War and Ground War.
     1. Air war: communication to the masses (Chapter 2, preached to them)
     1. Necessary for explaining vision, correcting theology, setting the pace
     2. Some of us have only been affected by the air war. We listen to what is said, attend meetings but are not plugged in.  They’re identified with us, but not engaged in our task.
     2. Ground War: Training, leadership developments, community groups/relationships. biblical counselling. (Chapter 3, work connected to the vision takes place, to make the difference!)
        1. Those who are engaged in the ground war are:
           1. financially contributing
           2. engaged in service
           3. in a community group/relationship with others
           4. understands the vision and the part they play in achieving it.
4. Nehemiah worked ON the organisation not IN it
   • Nehemiah didn’t build a section of the wall himself
   • He stayed attentive to what was going on in each group and how the work was progressing.
   • He looked for old stones. (140 year old stones, were re-used)
5. God lists by name a list of people.  Because he loves people and loves to father them
   • God could have rebuilt the wall himself (he made the heavens and the earth didn’t he?)
   • We capture something of God’s heart when we work with him,
   • We can share in his joy of what is accomplished.
6. Everything we do is ‘ministry’, even if we’re not paid for it, if we do it as ‘unto the Lord’
   • Jesus worked for 30 years in relative obscurity before his 3 year public ministry. During that time he was still Holy, still serving God.
   • Whatever it is we’re doing, it’s all sacred if it’s done unto the Lord.
     1. Some say, I wish God would use me. whatever you’re doing, if it’s unto the Lord,  HE IS!.
     2. some of the guys mentioned in Chapter 3, are mentioned for ‘picking up rocks’ and putting them in the wall.
7. The nobles refused to work – don’t look to lead if you don’t serve.
   • Some people worked from Home.
     1. They worked outside their house
     2. Your house is an extension of your church facility
   • Minister as a family.
     1. Recognise gifts as they grow
     2. lead by example
8. Some work is less desirable than others.
   • The dung gate.., someone volunteered. lets humble ourselves to get the work done.
9. Old stones (older Godly people) have life, wisdom and experience of God working
   • Model godly behaviour, support new growth.
10. With 38 teams of people the wall got built.

So what is my response to this?  How will I lead now?

I’m looking for songs that encourage us to:

• Understand the ‘right now’ vision He has for us
• Get our hands dirty and serve
• See that God loves us and works with us
• Be the new creations that God has made us

Celebrate:

• We’re working with God to his plans
• That we have a place in his purposes
• The family (natural, church and spiritual)

Lord I thank you that from a list of names torn from a journal entry in Nehemiah, we can see that you are a God of order and of purpose. I thank you that you choose to use ordinary people just like us to humbly serve you and fulfil your purposes.  I appreciate that you call different people to different tasks, some specialist, some general but all are necessary to get the job done.  I thank you for my family, and the maturity and gifting I see in them as we serve you together. I pray for my leaders that they will continue to grow in humble stature and skills and continue the transition from doing all IN the church to working ON the church, establishing healthy growing teams where growth can be accelerated as we work together to build your church.

Power Cuts

This morning we’ve experienced two power cuts.

I like many of you I suspect, use a laptop and so the first I know of a power cut was when I come to send an email or post a blog and find the broadband connection is down.

Now my laptop functions perfectly well without a connection to the internet. It can compute things, write things down and remember them, it can display information it has remembered and function pretty well.  It even has it’s own source of power so that it can work without being plugged in to the mains and it will continue to work like that for as long as the battery lasts.

The battery will last a long time if I put the computer in sleep mode.  Because I’m not asking the computer to do anything, it draws very little power.  If I use the laptop and turn down the brightness of the screen and change the power settings to idle when I’m not using it for a couple of minutes, I could expect the battery to last quite a long while.  But if I use it normally, the battery will last only a few hours and then it will turn off.  A computer without power is useless to me. It becomes a paperweight at best and a barrier to completing my work tasks for the day.

Even if I conserved it’s power, there’s only so long that I can be effective in my job without it. Sooner or later I’d need to check a system or send/receive an email, look over new work requests in our call management system or call someone on my voip phone. All of these things require a communications connection, and that connection needs power to work!

It struck me that I can sometimes be like a laptop disconnected from power.  I can function, but can only recall knowledge I already know. I can work things out, but without the benefit of Godly direction and I can serve but my reserves of energy are quickly depleted. It is important to remain plugged in to the triune God.  This is not to say that he ‘leaves us’ once we are His, but rather that we choose to ignore or work with our relationship in place (a bit like when I choose to ignore the satnav’s directions or say yes and no in what I hope are the right places in a conversation with my wife when I really want to be doing something else)..  Sooner or later (usually sooner) I recognise that I’ve become unplugged and I need to reconnect with God. I need to seek his spirit and his direction, I need to be thankful and cognisant of his salvation, his grace and his mercy. I need the refresh of the Spirit’s power, I need to draw from God’s love and tenderness, I need to confront the sin that so easily entangles and find the forgiveness of the father.

Lord, thank you for your steadfastness which goes on and on and on. There is nowhere I can run from you, and no place that I can hide. Thank you for your voice that remains speaking if only I will listen. Forgive me when I think my ways are better than yours or when I go off like a bull in a china shop and drain my resources faster than you provide them because I’m not doing what you say. Thank you that you restore me when I fail. Thank you for your power that works in me to fulfil your purposes.

Check Out Rick Warrens book: GODS POWER TO CHANGE YOUR LIFE (Living with Purpose) for ways of staying plugged in and making a difference to your life

Does the Trinity affect your life?

I’ve recently read Donald Macleod’s book shared life in which he argues succinctly and understandably that we need to be mindful of the three persons of the trinity in our worship life.  To worship God the father without acknowledging the salvation brought through the Son or the guiding of the Holy Spirit is severely lacking..

Some oft used phrases can mislead us to thinking that only one member of the trinity is resident in our lives such as “God shaped hole”, “Invite Jesus into your heart” and “Indwelling of the holy spirit”, but Donald argues that scripture points to all three persons being resident in the redeemed soul.

The implication of this triune dwelling is security, power and ability to always be in the presence of God.  We share (through adoption, by grace) the special relationship that Christ enjoys with his Father and the Spirit… just think about that for a minute!

In his book Donald also provides an overview of the doctrine of the trinity and some observations about the differences with  Judiasm, Islam, Jehovah’s witnesses and mormonism.
For anyone confused with what the trinity is, and why it’s important to every Christian, I heartily recommend his book. Shared life.